it's one thing to believe in your religion, which i do, but to go transfer some biblical scripture into science and try to use it for a different purpose than it was meant. it's meant for spiritual and moral leadership, not meant for scientific inquiry. for them to keep doing this like he does and claiming he's going to lead the country into the 21st -- through the 21st century? i think that's kind of not smart or dopey thinking. what do you think? how can you claim to be a reformist and talk about creationism? >> i'm not sure that bobby jindal is talking about creationism very much in the statements he made to politico. >> he hasn't stopped. >> he hasn't stopped yet. again, this is very early days. i'm not trying to make excuses for him. i think that there's a -- in any way. i'm pro-science, i think we need to be credible reform party, you should embrace climate change and propose solutions to them. there's no question about that. but, you know, i think there is going to be -- this is where some of the cleavages will come among various strains of reformism. howard pointed to one, the q